Adoption Counselling in Yarm

Photo of Coleen Mercer-Quinn, DCounsPsych, HCPC - Couns. Psych., Psychologist
Coleen Mercer-Quinn
Psychologist, DCounsPsych, HCPC - Couns. Psych.
Verified Verified
Yarm TS15
I am a Chartered Fellow of the British Psychological Society and an HCPC Registered Psychologist with 25 years of clinical experience. Under the terms of the Royal Charter, I uphold the highest standards of integrity and professionalism promoting ethical behaviour to ensure a dignified and respectful greeting to individuals, groups and corporate clients across the social and cultural spectrum. I work with children, adults, professionals, couples, groups, charities, and corporate clients.
I am a Chartered Fellow of the British Psychological Society and an HCPC Registered Psychologist with 25 years of clinical experience. Under the terms of the Royal Charter, I uphold the highest standards of integrity and professionalism promoting ethical behaviour to ensure a dignified and respectful greeting to individuals, groups and corporate clients across the social and cultural spectrum. I work with children, adults, professionals, couples, groups, charities, and corporate clients.
01642 548437 View 01642 548437
Photo of Kay Bowman - Peace of Mind counselling services, MA, MBACP, Counsellor
Peace of Mind counselling services
Counsellor, MA, MBACP
Verified Verified
Yarm TS15
As an integrative counsellor specialising in attachment trauma, my approach can be tailored to meet the needs of those who are seeking a deeper exploration of their history to understand the complex terrain that influences emotional well-being, relationships, and overall quality of life. Progressing from this, I also offer a solution-focused and strengths-based approach believing in the transformative power of focusing on solutions rather than problems by fostering a sense of empowerment and self-efficacy by identifying strengths, resources and goals to address stress, anxiety, depression, life changes, and self-development.
As an integrative counsellor specialising in attachment trauma, my approach can be tailored to meet the needs of those who are seeking a deeper exploration of their history to understand the complex terrain that influences emotional well-being, relationships, and overall quality of life. Progressing from this, I also offer a solution-focused and strengths-based approach believing in the transformative power of focusing on solutions rather than problems by fostering a sense of empowerment and self-efficacy by identifying strengths, resources and goals to address stress, anxiety, depression, life changes, and self-development.
01642 424088 View 01642 424088
Photo of Nicola Jayne Arceri, MBACP, Counsellor
Nicola Jayne Arceri
Counsellor, MBACP
Verified Verified
Yarm TS15
My counselling style is warm and interactive. I believe in treating everyone with respect, sensitivity, and compassion, and I don't believe one size fits all! I am experienced in working with a wide range of issues including relationship issues, depression, anxiety, coping with addictions, attention-deficit disorder, trauma, bereavement and loss, anger management amongst other concerns I also help many people who have experienced sexual abuse, rape and domestic violence or that live with personality disorders
My counselling style is warm and interactive. I believe in treating everyone with respect, sensitivity, and compassion, and I don't believe one size fits all! I am experienced in working with a wide range of issues including relationship issues, depression, anxiety, coping with addictions, attention-deficit disorder, trauma, bereavement and loss, anger management amongst other concerns I also help many people who have experienced sexual abuse, rape and domestic violence or that live with personality disorders
01642 130408 View 01642 130408
Photo of Lucy Thornton, DCounsPsych, MUKCP, Psychotherapist
Lucy Thornton
Psychotherapist, DCounsPsych, MUKCP
Verified Verified
Yarm TS15
Hi, I am a registered accredited (UKCP) Psychotherapist & Counsellor and have experience working with children, adolescents, and adults. All my clients are unique, and so is my approach to therapy. I utilise a humanistic and integrated approach, which means I tailor my techniques to fit the individual needs of each of my clients. This approach ensures a holistic and compassionate therapeutic experience that promotes personal growth and emotional well-being. Addressing the emotional, mental, and relational aspects of each of my clients.
Hi, I am a registered accredited (UKCP) Psychotherapist & Counsellor and have experience working with children, adolescents, and adults. All my clients are unique, and so is my approach to therapy. I utilise a humanistic and integrated approach, which means I tailor my techniques to fit the individual needs of each of my clients. This approach ensures a holistic and compassionate therapeutic experience that promotes personal growth and emotional well-being. Addressing the emotional, mental, and relational aspects of each of my clients.
01740 618155 View 01740 618155
Photo of Nicola Jones - Nicola Jones Counselling and CBT, MBABCP, Psychotherapist
Nicola Jones Counselling and CBT
Psychotherapist, MBABCP
Verified Verified
Yarm TS15
I am a fully qualified and experienced Counsellor, Psychological Therapist and High Intensity Cognitive Behavioural Therapist (CBT) and Supervisor. Often individuals will seek therapy because they feel unable to cope with the stresses of life or adjusting to a big change, not like 'their old self', isolated from others, worried or lost or just needing someone to listen. My role is to work together with individuals to make sense of what is happening for them and provide opportunities for change in away that they feel is appropriate and achievable at their own pace, within a private and confidential setting.
I am a fully qualified and experienced Counsellor, Psychological Therapist and High Intensity Cognitive Behavioural Therapist (CBT) and Supervisor. Often individuals will seek therapy because they feel unable to cope with the stresses of life or adjusting to a big change, not like 'their old self', isolated from others, worried or lost or just needing someone to listen. My role is to work together with individuals to make sense of what is happening for them and provide opportunities for change in away that they feel is appropriate and achievable at their own pace, within a private and confidential setting.
01325 809788 View 01325 809788

More Therapists Nearby

Photo of Darren Gallagher - Darren Gallagher, MA, MUKCP, Psychotherapist
Darren Gallagher
Psychotherapist, MA, MUKCP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Darlington DL3
I have specialist experience of working with loss, separation pre-bereavement and bereavement; stress; anxiety; attachment; low mood; self-esteem; grief; anger; domestic abuse; care experienced; adoption; neurodiversity; gender; sexuality and relationships.
Hi, I’m an accredited Psychotherapeutic Counsellor (UKCP/ MBACP) with a specialism of working with children, young people and adult clients. I am trained in EMDR (Masterclass) and have many years experience working with children and families within settings, such as schools, hospices, charities, clinical settings, LAC teams and in the community – Like Violet Oaklander says ‘Play can be a serious business’. I am a humanistic, ‘integrative’ practitioner, so I use different methods to develop a warm, friendly relationship based on individual needs, respect and accepting the person as a whole – in other words - ‘I’m Ok – You’re Ok’.
I have specialist experience of working with loss, separation pre-bereavement and bereavement; stress; anxiety; attachment; low mood; self-esteem; grief; anger; domestic abuse; care experienced; adoption; neurodiversity; gender; sexuality and relationships.
Hi, I’m an accredited Psychotherapeutic Counsellor (UKCP/ MBACP) with a specialism of working with children, young people and adult clients. I am trained in EMDR (Masterclass) and have many years experience working with children and families within settings, such as schools, hospices, charities, clinical settings, LAC teams and in the community – Like Violet Oaklander says ‘Play can be a serious business’. I am a humanistic, ‘integrative’ practitioner, so I use different methods to develop a warm, friendly relationship based on individual needs, respect and accepting the person as a whole – in other words - ‘I’m Ok – You’re Ok’.
View
Photo of Kerrie McCabe, BACP, Counsellor
Kerrie McCabe
Counsellor, BACP
Verified Verified
Stockton-on-Tees TS20
I have experience of working with depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, anger, bereavement, post-traumatic stress disorder, adoption, family dynamics, attachment issues and relationship difficulties.
Hello, and a very warm welcome. My name is Kerrie, and I am a qualified Counsellor. I am a member of The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy, and adhere to their code of ethics. Counselling allows you to discuss any problems and difficult feelings you are experiencing in a relaxed, safe, and confidential environment. The Counselling process gives you the opportunity to talk about your problems enabling you to develop an understanding and insight into your thoughts, feelings, behaviors and issues. A plan of action may be looked at to either help you resolve your issues or help you to find ways of coping.
I have experience of working with depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, anger, bereavement, post-traumatic stress disorder, adoption, family dynamics, attachment issues and relationship difficulties.
Hello, and a very warm welcome. My name is Kerrie, and I am a qualified Counsellor. I am a member of The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy, and adhere to their code of ethics. Counselling allows you to discuss any problems and difficult feelings you are experiencing in a relaxed, safe, and confidential environment. The Counselling process gives you the opportunity to talk about your problems enabling you to develop an understanding and insight into your thoughts, feelings, behaviors and issues. A plan of action may be looked at to either help you resolve your issues or help you to find ways of coping.
01642 988107 View 01642 988107
Photo of David Benjamin, BACP, Counsellor
David Benjamin
Counsellor, BACP
Verified Verified
Stockton-on-Tees TS16
As a Trauma Informed therapist and supervisor I offer confidential one to one sessions for issues including anxiety and trauma. Face to face or video call. As an adopted adult, I've experienced my own attachment issues that come with this and can work through these with you in a trauma informed way. You will be made to feel welcome and safe as we work together.
As a Trauma Informed therapist and supervisor I offer confidential one to one sessions for issues including anxiety and trauma. Face to face or video call. As an adopted adult, I've experienced my own attachment issues that come with this and can work through these with you in a trauma informed way. You will be made to feel welcome and safe as we work together.
01642 680994 View 01642 680994
Photo of Amanda Jane Wilkinson, MBACP, Counsellor
Amanda Jane Wilkinson
Counsellor, MBACP
Verified Verified
Billingham TS23
Hello, I’m Amanda Wilkinson. I’m a therapist and jointly own a non profit making therapy company. I am experienced in working with Autism and relational trauma. I work with children, adults, families and organisations. I am a parent of four children and have a lived experience of parenting children who are neurodivergent. I have over 26 years of experience personally and professionally of different neurological conditions. I work with families who have adopted and looked after children, as well as birth families and individuals. I am NVR trained and work with groups and individuals where there is child to parent violence.
Hello, I’m Amanda Wilkinson. I’m a therapist and jointly own a non profit making therapy company. I am experienced in working with Autism and relational trauma. I work with children, adults, families and organisations. I am a parent of four children and have a lived experience of parenting children who are neurodivergent. I have over 26 years of experience personally and professionally of different neurological conditions. I work with families who have adopted and looked after children, as well as birth families and individuals. I am NVR trained and work with groups and individuals where there is child to parent violence.
01642 045044 View 01642 045044
Photo of Beverley Ann D'Arcy - Changing Minds Psychotherapy, MA, MUKCP, Psychotherapist
Changing Minds Psychotherapy
Psychotherapist, MA, MUKCP
Verified Verified
Darlington DL1
17 years as a psychotherapist providing therapy to people with complex and enduring mental health problems (mainly NHS) and clients with mild to moderate mental health issues referred by organisations. I carry out in depth assessments, quickly identify key issues and tailor therapy according to client need. I offer a confidential setting where clients are free to talk without fear of rejection, criticism of blame. I aim to provide someone with resources they can draw on to manage current and future anxiety, stresses, disabling symptoms and unstable moods.
17 years as a psychotherapist providing therapy to people with complex and enduring mental health problems (mainly NHS) and clients with mild to moderate mental health issues referred by organisations. I carry out in depth assessments, quickly identify key issues and tailor therapy according to client need. I offer a confidential setting where clients are free to talk without fear of rejection, criticism of blame. I aim to provide someone with resources they can draw on to manage current and future anxiety, stresses, disabling symptoms and unstable moods.
01969 607005 View 01969 607005
Photo of Dr Jane Bourne, PhD, MBABCP, Psychotherapist
Dr Jane Bourne
Psychotherapist, PhD, MBABCP
Verified Verified
Middlesbrough TS7
I am a psychotherapist, BABCP registered Cognitive Behaviour Therapist (CBT) and HCPC registered Arts therapist and. I work for the NHS and run a private practice specialising in mental health and well being. I am able to work creatively to help my clients to engage even if the talking therapies are difficult. I have a good track record with low mood and anxiety and getting my clients back on their feet and living their lives to the full.
I am a psychotherapist, BABCP registered Cognitive Behaviour Therapist (CBT) and HCPC registered Arts therapist and. I work for the NHS and run a private practice specialising in mental health and well being. I am able to work creatively to help my clients to engage even if the talking therapies are difficult. I have a good track record with low mood and anxiety and getting my clients back on their feet and living their lives to the full.
01642 688422 View 01642 688422
Photo of Emma Moore, MBACP, Counsellor
Emma Moore
Counsellor, MBACP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Stockton-on-Tees TS18
Not accepting new clients
Modern life throws many pressures and challenges our way and many of us find it difficult to admit that we're struggling. Often fear of judgement prevents us from reaching out for help. This is where therapy can come in. My work in a Mental Health Primary Care Team & roles in the community have provided me with experience of in working in many areas of psychological distress such as: Low self-esteem Interpersonal relationship problems/ breakdowns Depression Anxiety Bereavement/Loss Trauma Domestic abuse Bullying Social isolation/ Loneliness Sexuality/ gender confusion Homelessness Feeling a failure/ lost in life.
Modern life throws many pressures and challenges our way and many of us find it difficult to admit that we're struggling. Often fear of judgement prevents us from reaching out for help. This is where therapy can come in. My work in a Mental Health Primary Care Team & roles in the community have provided me with experience of in working in many areas of psychological distress such as: Low self-esteem Interpersonal relationship problems/ breakdowns Depression Anxiety Bereavement/Loss Trauma Domestic abuse Bullying Social isolation/ Loneliness Sexuality/ gender confusion Homelessness Feeling a failure/ lost in life.
01642 130423 View 01642 130423
Photo of Tracy McGlade, MBACP Accred, Psychotherapist
Tracy McGlade
Psychotherapist, MBACP Accred
Verified Verified
Stockton-on-Tees TS19
Not accepting new clients
Hi! I'm Tracy. Thank you for taking a look at my profile. I know that it's difficult to choose a psychotherapist, so here is a bit about me and if you'd like a chat before meeting, let me know. I recognise how important the therapeutic relationship is, so initial contact is about creating a safe space for us to work together. We will focus on your goals for therapy and develop a collaborative understanding of your story, and what may be contributing towards any difficulties. I am trained to work with a variety of difficulties from depression, anxiety, trauma, self-worth and family difficulties, amongst many others.
Hi! I'm Tracy. Thank you for taking a look at my profile. I know that it's difficult to choose a psychotherapist, so here is a bit about me and if you'd like a chat before meeting, let me know. I recognise how important the therapeutic relationship is, so initial contact is about creating a safe space for us to work together. We will focus on your goals for therapy and develop a collaborative understanding of your story, and what may be contributing towards any difficulties. I am trained to work with a variety of difficulties from depression, anxiety, trauma, self-worth and family difficulties, amongst many others.
01642 056291 View 01642 056291
Photo of John Rogers - TraumaWise, MA, HCPC-Art Therap., Psychotherapist
TraumaWise
Psychotherapist, MA, HCPC-Art Therap.
Verified Verified
Middlesbrough TS5  (Online Only)
Struggling with emotional or mental distress from difficult life experiences? I tailor care to your unique needs with a focus on growth and resilience. Reach out for a free consultation. I have 15 years experience of supporting people who have experienced single incident traumas (inc' witnessing), childhood developmental relationship traumas, physical, emotional, financial and sexual abuse. I can help support people who have received a range of diagnosis e.g depression, anxiety, panic, obsessive compulsive difficulties, body dysphoria, bi-polar, personality disorder and complex grief due to loss.
Struggling with emotional or mental distress from difficult life experiences? I tailor care to your unique needs with a focus on growth and resilience. Reach out for a free consultation. I have 15 years experience of supporting people who have experienced single incident traumas (inc' witnessing), childhood developmental relationship traumas, physical, emotional, financial and sexual abuse. I can help support people who have received a range of diagnosis e.g depression, anxiety, panic, obsessive compulsive difficulties, body dysphoria, bi-polar, personality disorder and complex grief due to loss.
01642 061104 View 01642 061104
Photo of Nickki Dickens, MUKCP, Counsellor
Nickki Dickens
Counsellor, MUKCP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Stockton-on-Tees TS18
Hello I’m Nickki, I work with children, young people and their families and have done for the last eight years in a range of settings, across Teesside. I am an accredited Child & Adolescent Therapist, working in a private practice, I also work as a consultant with The Bungalow Partnership, a local charity in Middlesbrough, I work within many primary and secondary schools, specialist education provisions and with the Local Authorities in Teesside. . I create a safe space so that children and young people are able to safely bring their most painful thoughts and feelings into a safe space with me in the room.
Hello I’m Nickki, I work with children, young people and their families and have done for the last eight years in a range of settings, across Teesside. I am an accredited Child & Adolescent Therapist, working in a private practice, I also work as a consultant with The Bungalow Partnership, a local charity in Middlesbrough, I work within many primary and secondary schools, specialist education provisions and with the Local Authorities in Teesside. . I create a safe space so that children and young people are able to safely bring their most painful thoughts and feelings into a safe space with me in the room.
01642 424089 View 01642 424089
Photo of Shaz Siraj, MBACP, Counsellor
Shaz Siraj
Counsellor, MBACP
Verified Verified
Stockton-on-Tees TS20
Hi, I'm Shaz. Welcome to my profile. Sometimes life can feel tough, and at times like this, it can feel difficult to see a way out of what you may be feeling. I truly believe in the power of talking, and especially in the changes that can happen when you are truly listened to. I can offer you a friendly, easy-going Counsellor who will not judge, but instead will offer you empathy and understanding. I will listen to you and work alongside you to build resilience and empower you to shine another perspective on your situation. I aim to build a therapeutic relationship with you that is real, honest, and based on trust.
Hi, I'm Shaz. Welcome to my profile. Sometimes life can feel tough, and at times like this, it can feel difficult to see a way out of what you may be feeling. I truly believe in the power of talking, and especially in the changes that can happen when you are truly listened to. I can offer you a friendly, easy-going Counsellor who will not judge, but instead will offer you empathy and understanding. I will listen to you and work alongside you to build resilience and empower you to shine another perspective on your situation. I aim to build a therapeutic relationship with you that is real, honest, and based on trust.
01287 551140 View 01287 551140
Photo of Caroline Harvey, PsychD, HCPC - Clin. Psych., Psychologist
Caroline Harvey
Psychologist, PsychD, HCPC - Clin. Psych.
Verified Verified
Darlington DL3
I am a BPC registered Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist and HCPC registered Clinical Psychologist with a private practice in Darlington, providing Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy to adults in the North East of England. I have helped many people, both in private practice and the NHS, overcome problems including those related to anxiety, depression, trauma, abuse, relationships, stress, low self-esteem, loss, life transitions, or medically unexplained symptoms. Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy can also be effective when you are experiencing a more general sense of dissatisfaction in life, helping you work towards greater fulfilment.
I am a BPC registered Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist and HCPC registered Clinical Psychologist with a private practice in Darlington, providing Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy to adults in the North East of England. I have helped many people, both in private practice and the NHS, overcome problems including those related to anxiety, depression, trauma, abuse, relationships, stress, low self-esteem, loss, life transitions, or medically unexplained symptoms. Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy can also be effective when you are experiencing a more general sense of dissatisfaction in life, helping you work towards greater fulfilment.
01325 808146 View 01325 808146
Photo of Peter John Haggerston, MNCPS Acc., Psychotherapist
Peter John Haggerston
Psychotherapist, MNCPS Acc.
Verified Verified
Stockton-on-Tees TS19
I am in integrative psychotherapist and clinical supervisor. I've worked with children and families since 2015. I am an adoptive parent. I support families, children and individuals to feel empowered and authentic. I have a lived experience of neurodivergence (autism). I have parented neurodivergent children with co-existing conditions such as, ASD, FASD, ADHD etc. I work integratively using different theoretical approaches tailored to the individual clients needs. I have a Diploma in Clinical Supervision and I use the seven eyed model. I work with students, qualified counsellors and psychotherapists.
I am in integrative psychotherapist and clinical supervisor. I've worked with children and families since 2015. I am an adoptive parent. I support families, children and individuals to feel empowered and authentic. I have a lived experience of neurodivergence (autism). I have parented neurodivergent children with co-existing conditions such as, ASD, FASD, ADHD etc. I work integratively using different theoretical approaches tailored to the individual clients needs. I have a Diploma in Clinical Supervision and I use the seven eyed model. I work with students, qualified counsellors and psychotherapists.
01642 056026 View 01642 056026

Online Therapists

Photo of Elizabeth Oyewole - Succour Empowering Equality Counselling, MBACP, Counsellor
Succour Empowering Equality Counselling
Counsellor, MBACP
Verified Verified
Hull HU3
I offer Person-centred, Trauma Focused, and Adoption Support Therapy.
Are you noticing and experiencing feelings of worry, and unable to shake it off? Are you increasingly tearful, sad, with low mood, low appetite, experiencing disturbed sleep/lack of a good quality sleep, nightmares, and tiredness? Feeling like something bad is going to happen? If so, do not be alone in your feelings, let's talk about it.
I offer Person-centred, Trauma Focused, and Adoption Support Therapy.
Are you noticing and experiencing feelings of worry, and unable to shake it off? Are you increasingly tearful, sad, with low mood, low appetite, experiencing disturbed sleep/lack of a good quality sleep, nightmares, and tiredness? Feeling like something bad is going to happen? If so, do not be alone in your feelings, let's talk about it.
01482 251689 View 01482 251689
Photo of Lyndsey Waugh, MA, MBACP, Psychotherapist
Lyndsey Waugh
Psychotherapist, MA, MBACP
Verified Verified
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3
My particular area of interest and expertise is Trauma, Personality Disorders, Anxiety, Adoption, Depression, Sexual Issues, Therapeutic Parenting as well as Training Counselling Therapeutic Skills.
I am a professionally qualified psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer. Establishing in private practice in 2013, with private practices in Gosforth and Monkseaton. My knowledge and skills have developed through my psychotherapeutic work in private practice, I will share this knowledge with you where it would be helpful, to enable you to develop tools to use in everyday life beyond therapy. I’m particularly proud of my track record over the last nearly 10 years as a Psychotherapist & in practice, I consider myself friendly and warming, my passion, innovative ideas and solutions particularly around psycho-education with and adults.
My particular area of interest and expertise is Trauma, Personality Disorders, Anxiety, Adoption, Depression, Sexual Issues, Therapeutic Parenting as well as Training Counselling Therapeutic Skills.
I am a professionally qualified psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer. Establishing in private practice in 2013, with private practices in Gosforth and Monkseaton. My knowledge and skills have developed through my psychotherapeutic work in private practice, I will share this knowledge with you where it would be helpful, to enable you to develop tools to use in everyday life beyond therapy. I’m particularly proud of my track record over the last nearly 10 years as a Psychotherapist & in practice, I consider myself friendly and warming, my passion, innovative ideas and solutions particularly around psycho-education with and adults.
0191 743 9785 View 0191 743 9785

See more therapy options for Yarm

Adoption Counsellors

Does my adopted child need therapy?

Not every adopted child needs therapy. However, many can benefit from seeing an adoption-informed therapist, especially if they were victims of abuse or neglect, appear withdrawn or disconnected, have behavioural or developmental issues (which may or may not be related to their adoption), are struggling with feelings of grief or loss surrounding their birth parents, or find it difficult to establish an identity, a challenge that often becomes most apparent during adolescence.

When should adoptive parents seek therapy?

Prospective parents can benefit from therapy even before an adoption—for example, to voice worries and fears; to reconcile infertility struggles, if relevant; or simply to prepare themselves for parenthood. After the adoption, parents who are struggling to bond with their child; are unsure how to talk about adoption or related issues, such as race; or whose child is dealing with developmental, behavioural, or psychiatric concerns can address these and other issues with the help of an adoption-competent therapist.

Is family therapy appropriate for adoptive families?

Family therapy can be invaluable for strengthening the bond between adoptive parents and children, helping the latter feel more secure in their place in the family. Family therapy can also help adoptive families navigate complex communication issues—for example, parents who feel uncomfortable discussing race with their child, who in turn feels invalidated by their silence, or a child who has questions about his birth parents but avoids asking them out of fear of hurting his adoptive parents’ feelings.

What therapy is not appropriate for adoption issues?

A discredited therapy known as “attachment therapy” (sometimes called “holding therapy” or “rebirthing therapy”) should not be used to treat adopted and foster children, though it was largely designed for this population. Attachment therapy involves restraining, coercing, and punishing the child in order for them to “release” negative emotions and attach to their new caregivers—techniques that are abusive and dangerous and have even proven fatal in some cases.