Therapists in Burnaby, BC

Photo of Wei Ting Kelly Chang - Embracing Change Counselling , MA, CCC, Counsellor
Embracing Change Counselling
Counsellor, MA, CCC
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5H
Human beings, on the whole, are extraordinarily complex. I believe that we each carry within us depths that we do not necessarily draw on in our day-to-day movements, be it by choice, or by a certain unawareness – when what is needed to access our full capacities has not yet been discovered. When feeling stuck, it can be important to be reminded of our resilience and our capacity to change, to flow in the midst of flux.
Human beings, on the whole, are extraordinarily complex. I believe that we each carry within us depths that we do not necessarily draw on in our day-to-day movements, be it by choice, or by a certain unawareness – when what is needed to access our full capacities has not yet been discovered. When feeling stuck, it can be important to be reminded of our resilience and our capacity to change, to flow in the midst of flux.
(581) 333-5267 View (581) 333-5267
Photo of Louise Chan, MEd, RCC, Counsellor
Louise Chan
Counsellor, MEd, RCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5C  (Online Only)
Sometimes, nothing feels more real than the words "I'm not good enough." And how is it I can be everyone else's cheerleader except my own? Instead of asking "What's wrong with me?", we get curious about the questions "What is going on?" or "What needs to change in order for me to better cope and manage?" By not judging our old patterns and understanding that they once protected us, I support clients in being able to then say, "I'm ready to live in a new way."
Sometimes, nothing feels more real than the words "I'm not good enough." And how is it I can be everyone else's cheerleader except my own? Instead of asking "What's wrong with me?", we get curious about the questions "What is going on?" or "What needs to change in order for me to better cope and manage?" By not judging our old patterns and understanding that they once protected us, I support clients in being able to then say, "I'm ready to live in a new way."
(587) 812-8933 View (587) 812-8933
Photo of Wendy Akune, MA, Counsellor
Wendy Akune
Counsellor, MA
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5C  (Online Only)
Are you struggling with your relationships, mental health, or life transitions? Are you exhausted from being caught up in the day to day, struggling with purpose, addictions or anxiety? Do you wonder if there is more to life? Sometimes the stressors from life or our past experiences can influence how we are showing up in our life and our relationships. Counselling can help. Through counselling, you can deepen your understanding of yourself and work through patterns that are holding you back. Sometimes we may just need some encouragement or a gentle nudge. I am here for you.
Are you struggling with your relationships, mental health, or life transitions? Are you exhausted from being caught up in the day to day, struggling with purpose, addictions or anxiety? Do you wonder if there is more to life? Sometimes the stressors from life or our past experiences can influence how we are showing up in our life and our relationships. Counselling can help. Through counselling, you can deepen your understanding of yourself and work through patterns that are holding you back. Sometimes we may just need some encouragement or a gentle nudge. I am here for you.
(365) 398-0999 View (365) 398-0999
Photo of Christine Michailides, RTC, Counsellor
Christine Michailides
Counsellor, RTC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5C
Waitlist for new clients
Children and families are often referred to me by other counsellors or health professionals because "the kid refuses to talk or cooperate" or "we tried everything and nothing works". Families often seek my specialties to explore their children's behaviours and challenges from the developmental lens. Neurodivergent children look forward to seeing me because they feel I am safe, and fun, and can easily connect with them in a special and meaningful way. I cannot work with autistic children receiving ABA treatment as it is contraindicative with my strong commitment to neurodiversity affirmative and disability ethical principles.
Children and families are often referred to me by other counsellors or health professionals because "the kid refuses to talk or cooperate" or "we tried everything and nothing works". Families often seek my specialties to explore their children's behaviours and challenges from the developmental lens. Neurodivergent children look forward to seeing me because they feel I am safe, and fun, and can easily connect with them in a special and meaningful way. I cannot work with autistic children receiving ABA treatment as it is contraindicative with my strong commitment to neurodiversity affirmative and disability ethical principles.
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Photo of Gloria Lee, PsyD, RPsych, Psychologist
Gloria Lee
Psychologist, PsyD, RPsych
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5C
Does this sound like you and your relationship? You fight in circles about the same (petty) things and don’t know how to make it better. Minor disagreements can erupt into full-blown arguments. You walk on eggshells to avoid conflicts. You don’t feel the same connection and closeness to your partner. You wonder if this is it…or if there is hope for your relationship. If you are feeling tired, hopeless, and exasperated, you’re in the right place. I help couples stop vicious cycles of fights and start communicating in a healthy and effective way, so both partners feel heard and understood; restoring trust and connection in your bond.
Does this sound like you and your relationship? You fight in circles about the same (petty) things and don’t know how to make it better. Minor disagreements can erupt into full-blown arguments. You walk on eggshells to avoid conflicts. You don’t feel the same connection and closeness to your partner. You wonder if this is it…or if there is hope for your relationship. If you are feeling tired, hopeless, and exasperated, you’re in the right place. I help couples stop vicious cycles of fights and start communicating in a healthy and effective way, so both partners feel heard and understood; restoring trust and connection in your bond.
(236) 239-1377 View (236) 239-1377
Photo of Maybo Lui, MS, RCC, Counsellor
Maybo Lui
Counsellor, MS, RCC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5C
Welcome! I believe that within each of us lies a wealth of inner strengths and untapped resources that can be used to make profound changes in our own lives. My aim is to empower you to find and utilize these abilities effectively. Through our collaborative efforts, I can help you establish a solid foundation for your journey towards self-discovery, growth and fulfillment. My primary focus is on supporting and guiding adults and couples through the complexities of dating and marital challenges, family conflicts, life transitions, stress, anxiety and depression.
Welcome! I believe that within each of us lies a wealth of inner strengths and untapped resources that can be used to make profound changes in our own lives. My aim is to empower you to find and utilize these abilities effectively. Through our collaborative efforts, I can help you establish a solid foundation for your journey towards self-discovery, growth and fulfillment. My primary focus is on supporting and guiding adults and couples through the complexities of dating and marital challenges, family conflicts, life transitions, stress, anxiety and depression.
(807) 907-3623 View (807) 907-3623
Photo of Karalee Ratzlaff, MEd, RCC, Counsellor
Karalee Ratzlaff
Counsellor, MEd, RCC
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V3J
I specialize in addressing relationship issues, codependency and boundary setting, family conflict, and parenting concerns. Along with these specializations, I regularly work with clients managing anxiety, depression, trauma, and acute stress. I focus on identifying the roots of unhelpful patterns and behaviours from your unique personal history to find healing, personal growth, and to help you make sustainable changes in your life.
I specialize in addressing relationship issues, codependency and boundary setting, family conflict, and parenting concerns. Along with these specializations, I regularly work with clients managing anxiety, depression, trauma, and acute stress. I focus on identifying the roots of unhelpful patterns and behaviours from your unique personal history to find healing, personal growth, and to help you make sustainable changes in your life.
(778) 860-6763 View (778) 860-6763
Photo of Jace Park, RPC, Coach, MA, Counsellor
Jace Park
Counsellor, RPC, Coach, MA
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5H
Let's make a beautiful world together! The real meaning of my own being does not exist without you. My existence is relying on you and my beautiful tomorrow is related to making relationships with you. I would like to support you emotionally, physically, spiritually, and mentally. You are the reason for my being. I would like to make a wonderful world with you.
Let's make a beautiful world together! The real meaning of my own being does not exist without you. My existence is relying on you and my beautiful tomorrow is related to making relationships with you. I would like to support you emotionally, physically, spiritually, and mentally. You are the reason for my being. I would like to make a wonderful world with you.
(587) 851-5689 View (587) 851-5689
Photo of Alia Chan, MCP, RCC, Counsellor
Alia Chan
Counsellor, MCP, RCC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5C
Alia received her degree in counselling psychology from Adler University and is registered with BCACC. Alia works with individuals who are looking for a new way to take hold of their lives. She acknowledges that counselling can be difficult to start, and she is here to go through those challenges with you. It is her priority to create a space where you feel validated and heard, and her hope for you is that you empower your inner strength so you can live a meaningful life. As a Filipino-Canadian, Alia is also passionate in working and supporting those of the BIPOC community.
Alia received her degree in counselling psychology from Adler University and is registered with BCACC. Alia works with individuals who are looking for a new way to take hold of their lives. She acknowledges that counselling can be difficult to start, and she is here to go through those challenges with you. It is her priority to create a space where you feel validated and heard, and her hope for you is that you empower your inner strength so you can live a meaningful life. As a Filipino-Canadian, Alia is also passionate in working and supporting those of the BIPOC community.
(604) 330-7568 View (604) 330-7568
Photo of Fatima Samreen, MCP, RP, RCC, Registered Psychotherapist
Fatima Samreen
Registered Psychotherapist, MCP, RP, RCC
Verified Verified
6 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5K  (Online Only)
You’ve probably spent a lot of time trying to fix things on your own, but maybe you’ve reached a point of exhaustion. You might be feeling overwhelmed, self-critical, & alone. You don’t know what else you can do to make yourself feel better, or how to keep up with the challenges you’re facing. Maybe there are cultural & social challenges that are making your situation worse. Maybe you're tired of running around in circles & have made the decision to see a counsellor so you don’t continue to feel like you’re “going crazy”.
You’ve probably spent a lot of time trying to fix things on your own, but maybe you’ve reached a point of exhaustion. You might be feeling overwhelmed, self-critical, & alone. You don’t know what else you can do to make yourself feel better, or how to keep up with the challenges you’re facing. Maybe there are cultural & social challenges that are making your situation worse. Maybe you're tired of running around in circles & have made the decision to see a counsellor so you don’t continue to feel like you’re “going crazy”.
(289) 512-2990 View (289) 512-2990
Photo of David Tong, MEd, RCC, CPF, Counsellor
David Tong
Counsellor, MEd, RCC, CPF
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5H
Do you feel that life gets you going in circles, leaving you distressed, stuck, or barely holding on? You may be asking yourself: How can I deal with my constant worrying, fears or need for perfection? What can I do to better manage my kids, relate to them, or give them the guidance they need? Or how can I stop my negative thoughts, feelings, nightmares or flashbacks? If you're finding yourself grasping for answers, I'm here to say there's hope! I believe our mental health is an ongoing journey, with its ebbs and flows along life's path. As a fellow companion walking alongside you, we can work together to navigate a way forward.
Do you feel that life gets you going in circles, leaving you distressed, stuck, or barely holding on? You may be asking yourself: How can I deal with my constant worrying, fears or need for perfection? What can I do to better manage my kids, relate to them, or give them the guidance they need? Or how can I stop my negative thoughts, feelings, nightmares or flashbacks? If you're finding yourself grasping for answers, I'm here to say there's hope! I believe our mental health is an ongoing journey, with its ebbs and flows along life's path. As a fellow companion walking alongside you, we can work together to navigate a way forward.
(587) 816-2328 View (587) 816-2328
Photo of Una Mulhall - Una Mulhall Nuway Counselling , RCC, Counsellor
Una Mulhall Nuway Counselling
Counsellor, RCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5H  (Online Only)
I am a Registered Clinical Counsellor with BCACC. I have over fifteen years of experience providing mental health support to adults in a variety of community and clinical settings. This includes supporting those who are experiencing anxiety, depression, relationship difficulties, trauma, grief/loss, and life transitions. My counselling approach is client-centred and incorporates Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Emotionally Focused Therapy, attachment theory, mindfulness-based approaches, and Dialectical Behavioural Therapy.
I am a Registered Clinical Counsellor with BCACC. I have over fifteen years of experience providing mental health support to adults in a variety of community and clinical settings. This includes supporting those who are experiencing anxiety, depression, relationship difficulties, trauma, grief/loss, and life transitions. My counselling approach is client-centred and incorporates Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Emotionally Focused Therapy, attachment theory, mindfulness-based approaches, and Dialectical Behavioural Therapy.
(236) 360-5572 View (236) 360-5572
Photo of Zoe Liu, M Ed, BCBA, Pre-Licensed Professional
Zoe Liu
Pre-Licensed Professional, M Ed, BCBA
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5H
Your fears, loneliness, and dissatisfaction in various relationships or experiences may keep you from living that life you deserve. You may engage in some behaviours that interfere with your goals and really want to have a space to freely explore these challenges. Whether these barriers are from birth, or family relationships, or other critical life experiences, I can help discover your inner ability to overcome them so you can live a joyful, meaningful, and connected life.
Your fears, loneliness, and dissatisfaction in various relationships or experiences may keep you from living that life you deserve. You may engage in some behaviours that interfere with your goals and really want to have a space to freely explore these challenges. Whether these barriers are from birth, or family relationships, or other critical life experiences, I can help discover your inner ability to overcome them so you can live a joyful, meaningful, and connected life.
(249) 544-0443 x103 View (249) 544-0443 x103
Photo of Samantha Short, MA, MSEd, RCC, Counsellor
Samantha Short
Counsellor, MA, MSEd, RCC
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5A  (Online Only)
She is a dedicated and compassionate counsellor with a passion for helping individuals navigate life’s challenges. With a unique integrative approach, Samantha combines the principles of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and a person centered perspective to empower clients on their journey towards personal growth and mental well-being. With the integration of DBT, Samantha helps her clients build skills in mindfulness, emotional regulation, interpersonal effectiveness, and distress tolerance. Clients develop the tools and confidence to cope with challenging emotions and improve overall wellbeing
She is a dedicated and compassionate counsellor with a passion for helping individuals navigate life’s challenges. With a unique integrative approach, Samantha combines the principles of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and a person centered perspective to empower clients on their journey towards personal growth and mental well-being. With the integration of DBT, Samantha helps her clients build skills in mindfulness, emotional regulation, interpersonal effectiveness, and distress tolerance. Clients develop the tools and confidence to cope with challenging emotions and improve overall wellbeing
(604) 834-1708 View (604) 834-1708
Photo of Jess Tang, BComm, Counsellor
Jess Tang
Counsellor, BComm
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5C
You deserve to be seen, heard and valued. As a clinician, I believe in meeting you with empathy, compassion and collaboration, and offer a safe space for you to grow and heal. Using a strengths-based and evidence supported approach, I support clients in finding acceptance for all parts of their identity, uncovering deeper understandings of themselves, and healing past wounds and trauma. I enjoy working with high performing, achievement-oriented individuals on issues including perfectionism, self-doubt, anxiety, worthiness. I appreciate the uniqueness of each individual and am committed to ensuring the process reflects your needs.
You deserve to be seen, heard and valued. As a clinician, I believe in meeting you with empathy, compassion and collaboration, and offer a safe space for you to grow and heal. Using a strengths-based and evidence supported approach, I support clients in finding acceptance for all parts of their identity, uncovering deeper understandings of themselves, and healing past wounds and trauma. I enjoy working with high performing, achievement-oriented individuals on issues including perfectionism, self-doubt, anxiety, worthiness. I appreciate the uniqueness of each individual and am committed to ensuring the process reflects your needs.
View
Photo of Grace Dent, MA, RCC
Grace Dent
MA, RCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Burnaby, BC V5A  (Online Only)
Taking the first step toward getting help is often the most difficult. Make the contact today. Grace Dent at Cobblestone Counselling & Coaching Inc. provides therapy through supportive listening and collaborative problem-solving. Insights and skills come out of the foundation of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT-Informed). At Cobblestone, we accept the dialectical tension of acceptance and change and search for the synthesis and this is what our clients will learn to do too.
Taking the first step toward getting help is often the most difficult. Make the contact today. Grace Dent at Cobblestone Counselling & Coaching Inc. provides therapy through supportive listening and collaborative problem-solving. Insights and skills come out of the foundation of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT-Informed). At Cobblestone, we accept the dialectical tension of acceptance and change and search for the synthesis and this is what our clients will learn to do too.
(604) 706-2554 View (604) 706-2554
Photo of Athina Pilarinos, MCP, RCC, Counsellor
Athina Pilarinos
Counsellor, MCP, RCC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5A
Do you struggle with anxiety or low mood, have difficulty creating new habits, experience high stress or pressure, or have problems in relationships? My approach to individual therapy combines CBT with concepts including mindfulness, attachment, meaning-making/purpose, and often an exploration of values and beliefs to address mood and create a more fulfilling life. I work with individuals (8+), couples, and families. Read more on my website where I go into detail. You want to thrive. I can help.
Do you struggle with anxiety or low mood, have difficulty creating new habits, experience high stress or pressure, or have problems in relationships? My approach to individual therapy combines CBT with concepts including mindfulness, attachment, meaning-making/purpose, and often an exploration of values and beliefs to address mood and create a more fulfilling life. I work with individuals (8+), couples, and families. Read more on my website where I go into detail. You want to thrive. I can help.
(778) 760-4244 View (778) 760-4244
Photo of Renuca Burman Kumar, Dvati, Art Therapist
Renuca Burman Kumar
Art Therapist, Dvati
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5E  (Online Only)
My journey with art therapy began when I utilized art in my own personal healing route, after I had undergone a life-altering motor vehicle accident. My love for creativity and being surrounded by variety of art media, helped me conquer my own stress related to chronic pain. Specifically, the repetitive movements of creating art helped push my brain to retrain and gain agency over my physical and emotional well-being. After discovering for myself the healing and therapeutic benefits of art, I decided to pursue art therapy as a path to support individuals through life’s challenges.
My journey with art therapy began when I utilized art in my own personal healing route, after I had undergone a life-altering motor vehicle accident. My love for creativity and being surrounded by variety of art media, helped me conquer my own stress related to chronic pain. Specifically, the repetitive movements of creating art helped push my brain to retrain and gain agency over my physical and emotional well-being. After discovering for myself the healing and therapeutic benefits of art, I decided to pursue art therapy as a path to support individuals through life’s challenges.
(431) 814-2743 View (431) 814-2743
Photo of Alexandra Marinova, MA, RCC, BSc, RPC, Counsellor
Alexandra Marinova
Counsellor, MA, RCC, BSc, RPC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5A
“Life is suffering”, the Buddha famously said. But it doesn’t have to be this way, at least not all of the time. While I may never know the full extent of your situation, I can be sure of two things – you have suffered and a part of you believes it is possible for things to be better. I am here to guide you on your journey to better, however that looks like for you.
“Life is suffering”, the Buddha famously said. But it doesn’t have to be this way, at least not all of the time. While I may never know the full extent of your situation, I can be sure of two things – you have suffered and a part of you believes it is possible for things to be better. I am here to guide you on your journey to better, however that looks like for you.
(604) 229-6569 View (604) 229-6569
Photo of Klaus Klein, MA, RCC, Counsellor
Klaus Klein
Counsellor, MA, RCC
Verified Verified
Burnaby, BC V5H
Klaus works with men and women as individuals and couples to heal from the past live more in the present and create a more powerful future. There are times when a person may feel confused, frustrated, and powerless in a life situation that seems to get bigger and worse.
Klaus works with men and women as individuals and couples to heal from the past live more in the present and create a more powerful future. There are times when a person may feel confused, frustrated, and powerless in a life situation that seems to get bigger and worse.
(647) 691-3482 View (647) 691-3482
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See more therapy options for Burnaby

How does your Counsellor compare?

Number of Counsellors in Burnaby, BC

600+

Average cost per session

$150

Counsellors in Burnaby, BC who prioritize treating:

94% Anxiety
87% Depression
84% Self Esteem
83% Stress
81% Relationship Issues
74% Trauma and PTSD
73% Life Transitions

Average years in practice

8 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

58% SunLife
55% Pacific Blue Cross
50% Manulife

How Counsellors in Burnaby, BC see their clients

78% In Person and Online
22% Online Only

Gender breakdown

79% Female
20% Male
1% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counselling

How can I find a therapist in Burnaby?

Search for nearby therapists or counsellors by inputting your city, postal code, or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or postal code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

Most Counsellors and Psychotherapists listed in the directory are certified by one of the main professional associations, mainly the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association (CCPA), and will have a Certified Canadian Counsellor (CCC) designation with their name. Social Workers listed in the directory must be registered members of the college specific to their province. To be listed in the directory, Psychologists must be registered with the psychological college specific to their province or territory.

Providers whose professional membership or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Given the considerable variation in professional regulation and prerequisites across Canadian provinces, some providers may possess significant professional qualifications without necessarily holding professional memberships or being obliged to acquire them. As a result, they may be selectively included without the "Verified" seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counsellor?

Psychologists, counsellors, psychotherapists and social workers can all provide counselling or talking therapy and have credentials and supervised, practical experience that enable them to do so in Canada.

Psychologists have a master's and/or doctoral degree and have passed both written and oral exams. Psychologists are able to complete mental health assessments and provide diagnostic information to clients as well as provide counselling therapy or psychotherapy. Counsellors and psychotherapists are expected to have a master's or doctoral degree in counselling psychology, social work, or a related mental health discipline and certification by a professional association, such as the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association. Registered Social Workers possess a Bachelor's or Master's degree in Social Work and where possible must be licensed or certified by the provincial government and/or regulatory college.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, the cost of a therapy session in Canada could be between $100 and $200. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

If you are struggling to access therapy due to budget constraints, you could also consider public funded mental health services. Some types of outpatient mental health services are covered by Medicare, provided these are performed by a licensed mental health professional in the provinces or territory you reside in and who accepts the assignment.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your postal code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Professionals licensed by regulatory colleges and those certified by associations such as the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association are obligated to uphold client confidentiality unless there is a legal reason that requires them to disclose information. Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship and only under specific circumstances, such as when there is the potential or known harm to the client or others, or a court order, will a therapist be obligated to break the agreement. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed during the initial consultation.