Adoption Therapists in Cobourg, ON

Photo of Lisa Bradburn, BA, RPQ, Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying)
Lisa Bradburn
Registered Psychotherapist (Qualifying), BA, RPQ
Verified Verified
Cobourg, ON K9A
Are you struggling to find meaning and purpose in your life? Perhaps you feel overwhelmed, anxious, and unsure who to talk to. If you're curious to uncover motivations behind behaviors and bring awareness to how past life experience informs who you are today, we can explore more together in a judgment-free, non-hierarchical, and empathetic environment.
Are you struggling to find meaning and purpose in your life? Perhaps you feel overwhelmed, anxious, and unsure who to talk to. If you're curious to uncover motivations behind behaviors and bring awareness to how past life experience informs who you are today, we can explore more together in a judgment-free, non-hierarchical, and empathetic environment.
(437) 291-8670 View (437) 291-8670
Photo of Katherine Lennon - Cobourg Counselling, RP, CCC, MEd, CRPO, Registered Psychotherapist
Cobourg Counselling
Registered Psychotherapist, RP, CCC, MEd, CRPO
Verified Verified
Cobourg, ON K9A
We are here to provide you with a warm and safe environment where you and your loved ones can be heard. Together, we can tackle a variety of issues including anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), disordered eating disorders, addiction, and relationship problems, among others.
We are here to provide you with a warm and safe environment where you and your loved ones can be heard. Together, we can tackle a variety of issues including anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), disordered eating disorders, addiction, and relationship problems, among others.
(855) 979-7199 View (855) 979-7199
Photo of Jennifer McArdle-Toll, MPsy, RP, Registered Psychotherapist
Jennifer McArdle-Toll
Registered Psychotherapist, MPsy, RP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
I offer a casual, inclusive space for teens and adults who are finding it difficult to navigate through the challenges of life. In a safe and judgement-free environment, we can work together to identify obstacles that are preventing you from moving forward. We can uncover the patterns that fuel your unwanted behaviour, and begin to build a foundation for resilience and growth. As a psychotherapist, it is my role to empower my clients to see their potential for growth and to construct a reasonable and attainable path through working together to set goals.
I offer a casual, inclusive space for teens and adults who are finding it difficult to navigate through the challenges of life. In a safe and judgement-free environment, we can work together to identify obstacles that are preventing you from moving forward. We can uncover the patterns that fuel your unwanted behaviour, and begin to build a foundation for resilience and growth. As a psychotherapist, it is my role to empower my clients to see their potential for growth and to construct a reasonable and attainable path through working together to set goals.
(289) 273-8519 View (289) 273-8519
Photo of Sara Coyle, MSW, RSW, SEP, DDP, Registered Social Worker
Sara Coyle
Registered Social Worker, MSW, RSW, SEP, DDP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
I support youth and adults with processing and healing from trauma, stressors, and challenging life experiences. These stressors show up in our bodies in several ways which may include anxiety, chronic pain, health difficulties, sleep disturbance, etc. or just not feeling yourself. The folks I support may have experienced childhood trauma or attachment difficulties, or they may be experiencing increased anxiety and stress due to work, relationships, school or more recent challenging life experiences. I strongly believe in the youth’s caregiver(s) involvement in therapy process to better support their youth outside therapy sessions.
I support youth and adults with processing and healing from trauma, stressors, and challenging life experiences. These stressors show up in our bodies in several ways which may include anxiety, chronic pain, health difficulties, sleep disturbance, etc. or just not feeling yourself. The folks I support may have experienced childhood trauma or attachment difficulties, or they may be experiencing increased anxiety and stress due to work, relationships, school or more recent challenging life experiences. I strongly believe in the youth’s caregiver(s) involvement in therapy process to better support their youth outside therapy sessions.
(289) 212-6294 View (289) 212-6294
Photo of The Dot Peterborough - The Dot Canada, MA, RP, RSW, CCPA, Registered Psychotherapist
The Dot Canada
Registered Psychotherapist, MA, RP, RSW, CCPA
Verified Verified
Cobourg, ON K9A  (Online Only)
It's not just you, life HAS gotten harder in the last few years. If you've been powering through, staying strong and carrying on, but now you're barely getting by and you're tired of feeling like you're not really living your life, it might be time for outside support. The benefit of therapy is that it's a time where you get to focus on yourself, to look at your life, and to get an outside perspective on how it could be different. You don't have to just endure, with the right support, you can heal from the past, and move forward towards a better future.
It's not just you, life HAS gotten harder in the last few years. If you've been powering through, staying strong and carrying on, but now you're barely getting by and you're tired of feeling like you're not really living your life, it might be time for outside support. The benefit of therapy is that it's a time where you get to focus on yourself, to look at your life, and to get an outside perspective on how it could be different. You don't have to just endure, with the right support, you can heal from the past, and move forward towards a better future.
(289) 272-7337 View (289) 272-7337
Photo of Ruwa Sabbagh, PhD, CPsych, Psychologist
Ruwa Sabbagh
Psychologist, PhD, CPsych
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
I provide psychotherapy to children, adolescents, and adults for a wide range of concerns, including Depression, Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Relationship Issues, Loss and Grief, and Trauma. I also provide parent counselling and parent-child therapy to enhance the attachment relationship between parents and children of all ages, including infants and toddlers. I also work with parents who are expecting a baby and have concerns about becoming a parent. I have a special interest in working with adopted children and their parents. I welcome your call to discuss your situation to see if I can help.
I provide psychotherapy to children, adolescents, and adults for a wide range of concerns, including Depression, Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Relationship Issues, Loss and Grief, and Trauma. I also provide parent counselling and parent-child therapy to enhance the attachment relationship between parents and children of all ages, including infants and toddlers. I also work with parents who are expecting a baby and have concerns about becoming a parent. I have a special interest in working with adopted children and their parents. I welcome your call to discuss your situation to see if I can help.
(855) 971-2469 View (855) 971-2469
Photo of Evan Coghlan, RP, MACP, Registered Psychotherapist
Evan Coghlan
Registered Psychotherapist, RP, MACP
Verified Verified
5 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
It's heartbreaking to watch your child or teen struggle. As a parent or guardian, you know your child best, and can clearly see when they are hurting. Luckily, they have shared a little about their experience, but you still feel uncertain about their needs- powerless to do anything to help them. It just feels like things will never change. They have so much potential, and you would hate to see them miss it.
It's heartbreaking to watch your child or teen struggle. As a parent or guardian, you know your child best, and can clearly see when they are hurting. Luckily, they have shared a little about their experience, but you still feel uncertain about their needs- powerless to do anything to help them. It just feels like things will never change. They have so much potential, and you would hate to see them miss it.
(343) 304-6308 View (343) 304-6308
Photo of Kara Pierson - Kara Pierson Counselling & Consulting, RP, MEd, MA, Registered Psychotherapist
Kara Pierson Counselling & Consulting
Registered Psychotherapist, RP, MEd, MA
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
Are you just getting by? Stuck? Really struggling? Is it even overwhelming finding the right fit therapist? I want to help ease this process for you and ensure your therapy experience is empowering, practical and tailored for you. I help adults who are struggling with some unsettling change in their life (a health issue, relationship or family related, career, new life stage, a loss) and all the stuff that comes with it. My expertise is working with helping professionals (teachers, healthcare workers, First Responders), women in mid life+, caregivers, those struggling with a cultural issue, and those who feel deeply.
Are you just getting by? Stuck? Really struggling? Is it even overwhelming finding the right fit therapist? I want to help ease this process for you and ensure your therapy experience is empowering, practical and tailored for you. I help adults who are struggling with some unsettling change in their life (a health issue, relationship or family related, career, new life stage, a loss) and all the stuff that comes with it. My expertise is working with helping professionals (teachers, healthcare workers, First Responders), women in mid life+, caregivers, those struggling with a cultural issue, and those who feel deeply.
(289) 802-6379 View (289) 802-6379
Photo of Jennifer Maddan - Jennifer Maddan Counselling Services , BA Hons, Registered Psychotherapist
Jennifer Maddan Counselling Services
Registered Psychotherapist, BA Hons
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Cobourg, ON K9A
Waitlist for new clients
Limited space for new Client's with daytime availability-October 2024. Are you struggling with anxiety and feel overwhelmed? Experiencing the heaviness and isolation of depression? Navigating the profound pain of grief and loss? You don’t have to face these challenges alone. I am a dedicated and compassionate psychotherapist with a focus on helping individuals navigate the complexities of anxiety, depression, and grief. My goal is to provide a safe, supportive space where you can explore your emotions, gain insight, and find effective ways to cope with life’s challenges.
Limited space for new Client's with daytime availability-October 2024. Are you struggling with anxiety and feel overwhelmed? Experiencing the heaviness and isolation of depression? Navigating the profound pain of grief and loss? You don’t have to face these challenges alone. I am a dedicated and compassionate psychotherapist with a focus on helping individuals navigate the complexities of anxiety, depression, and grief. My goal is to provide a safe, supportive space where you can explore your emotions, gain insight, and find effective ways to cope with life’s challenges.
(249) 502-5851 View (249) 502-5851

More Therapists Nearby

Photo of Leslie Mountjoy, MDiv, BRE, SSW, Registered Psychotherapist
Leslie Mountjoy
Registered Psychotherapist, MDiv, BRE, SSW
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Port Hope, ON L1A
Now Offering EMDR! Hey there - As a therapy survivor myself, I know that it is often hard to reach out. I want to encourage you that I can relate, and also know that the first step to change comes with taking a courageous leap to work on your own goals! I am incredibly passionate about my role as a Registered Psychotherapist. Life has had its share of ups and downs for me, which I believe have helped me understand my clients in a deeper level. I find a lot of joy out of those 'ah-ha' moments, when a client breaks free from what is holding them back, or finds healing. It's truly an honour to walk with every client!
Now Offering EMDR! Hey there - As a therapy survivor myself, I know that it is often hard to reach out. I want to encourage you that I can relate, and also know that the first step to change comes with taking a courageous leap to work on your own goals! I am incredibly passionate about my role as a Registered Psychotherapist. Life has had its share of ups and downs for me, which I believe have helped me understand my clients in a deeper level. I find a lot of joy out of those 'ah-ha' moments, when a client breaks free from what is holding them back, or finds healing. It's truly an honour to walk with every client!
(289) 272-8514 View (289) 272-8514

Online Therapists

Photo of Judith Alexis Craig, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Judith Alexis Craig
Registered Social Worker, RSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Toronto, ON M5R
As an adoption and permanency expert, she works with individuals and families to address the core issues of adoption, bringing a unique perspective as a transracial adoptee and parent to biological and adopted children.
Judith Alexis Craig is a registered social worker, therapist, facilitator, and consultant specializing in trauma-informed, healing-centred care. She supports children, young people, and families of all genders and sexual orientations, using an intersectional and anti-racist approach. Judith collaborates with clients to develop tailored strategies and tools to help them navigate complex social and emotional challenges.
As an adoption and permanency expert, she works with individuals and families to address the core issues of adoption, bringing a unique perspective as a transracial adoptee and parent to biological and adopted children.
Judith Alexis Craig is a registered social worker, therapist, facilitator, and consultant specializing in trauma-informed, healing-centred care. She supports children, young people, and families of all genders and sexual orientations, using an intersectional and anti-racist approach. Judith collaborates with clients to develop tailored strategies and tools to help them navigate complex social and emotional challenges.
(226) 458-8206 View (226) 458-8206
Photo of Agnès Dupin, MSW, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Agnès Dupin
Registered Social Worker, MSW, RSW
Verified Verified
4 Endorsed
Toronto, ON M6H
I also specialize in the treatment of anxiety in children, difficulty with transition, behavioural issues, special needs/different abilities, parent-child relationships, adoption and separation issues as well as life transition issues and Youth athletes high performance while preserving life balance.
I am dedicated to the emotional well being of youth, children and their families and to help them find the equilibrium that respects everyone's needs, temperament, developmental stage and aspirations. I use a wide range of approaches tailored to the child and family such as play therapy, art therapy, narrative and solution focused approaches, mindfulness, parent-child attachment and positive behavioural support strategies.
I also specialize in the treatment of anxiety in children, difficulty with transition, behavioural issues, special needs/different abilities, parent-child relationships, adoption and separation issues as well as life transition issues and Youth athletes high performance while preserving life balance.
I am dedicated to the emotional well being of youth, children and their families and to help them find the equilibrium that respects everyone's needs, temperament, developmental stage and aspirations. I use a wide range of approaches tailored to the child and family such as play therapy, art therapy, narrative and solution focused approaches, mindfulness, parent-child attachment and positive behavioural support strategies.
(365) 649-1791 View (365) 649-1791
Photo of Michaele-Sue Goldblatt, MSW, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Michaele-Sue Goldblatt
Registered Social Worker, MSW, RSW
Verified Verified
Toronto, ON M4V
Families formed by Adoption or Blended Families need support and insight as they, too, need to recognize loss as they move forward.
Are you struggling with Loss? Infertility, Pregnancy Loss, Stillbirth, Neonatal death? Are you pregnant after loss? Loss of a loved one. Anxiety combined with Grief? Helping you cope with illness, I offer a compassionate, sensitive space for you to express your sadness, despair & rage at the unfairness of it all & will provide you with support & insight as you try to rebuild your life. Are you adopted & considering Reunion? Are you in a Blended Family needing support? I am available ONLINE by Zoom in Ontario. Early morning, evening & weekend appointments available. See website for more information. Sliding scale re fees.
Families formed by Adoption or Blended Families need support and insight as they, too, need to recognize loss as they move forward.
Are you struggling with Loss? Infertility, Pregnancy Loss, Stillbirth, Neonatal death? Are you pregnant after loss? Loss of a loved one. Anxiety combined with Grief? Helping you cope with illness, I offer a compassionate, sensitive space for you to express your sadness, despair & rage at the unfairness of it all & will provide you with support & insight as you try to rebuild your life. Are you adopted & considering Reunion? Are you in a Blended Family needing support? I am available ONLINE by Zoom in Ontario. Early morning, evening & weekend appointments available. See website for more information. Sliding scale re fees.
(647) 370-4012 View (647) 370-4012
Photo of Melanie Harsch, BFA, MSW, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Melanie Harsch
Registered Social Worker, BFA, MSW, RSW
Verified Verified
Toronto, ON M4C
My areas of interest and focus covers emotional regulation, executive functioning, anxiety, depression, ADHD, adoption, parenting, and giftedness/twice exceptional.
Do you struggle with issues around anxiety, depression or managing symptoms of ADHD? Are you a parent struggling to manage your child’s big feelings or perhaps your own roller-coaster of emotions? There is so much information online, it can get overwhelming and leave you feeling stuck. As a registered social worker, I can help you make sense of it all. My experience as a therapist working with adults and children in multiple countries, providing support for families of gifted children, and leading an adoption support group has led me to approach therapy from a culturally sensitive lens and strength-based perspective.
My areas of interest and focus covers emotional regulation, executive functioning, anxiety, depression, ADHD, adoption, parenting, and giftedness/twice exceptional.
Do you struggle with issues around anxiety, depression or managing symptoms of ADHD? Are you a parent struggling to manage your child’s big feelings or perhaps your own roller-coaster of emotions? There is so much information online, it can get overwhelming and leave you feeling stuck. As a registered social worker, I can help you make sense of it all. My experience as a therapist working with adults and children in multiple countries, providing support for families of gifted children, and leading an adoption support group has led me to approach therapy from a culturally sensitive lens and strength-based perspective.
(437) 500-1354 View (437) 500-1354
Photo of Elisa Rendina-Ashley - Mareas Therapeutic Services Inc, CYC, RP, BSW, MSW
Mareas Therapeutic Services Inc
CYC, RP, BSW, MSW
Verified Verified
Saint Catharines, ON L2R
At Mareas we offer a wide range of services including Individual therapy, Behaviour Supports, Adoption Support Services, Supervised Access, along with Support Groups for children, youth and adults.
Mareas was established as a specialized service provider to meet the needs of individuals, children and families experiencing challenges in the areas of emotional regulation, anxiety, attachment, interfering behaviours. Mareas recognizes that from time to time, everyone including all families need support. Programs and treatment plans are designed with a holistic approach with the client as the focus. Mareas is committed to providing nurturing and dedicated support to individuals, children, youth and families during difficult periods of time to help them get back on course.
At Mareas we offer a wide range of services including Individual therapy, Behaviour Supports, Adoption Support Services, Supervised Access, along with Support Groups for children, youth and adults.
Mareas was established as a specialized service provider to meet the needs of individuals, children and families experiencing challenges in the areas of emotional regulation, anxiety, attachment, interfering behaviours. Mareas recognizes that from time to time, everyone including all families need support. Programs and treatment plans are designed with a holistic approach with the client as the focus. Mareas is committed to providing nurturing and dedicated support to individuals, children, youth and families during difficult periods of time to help them get back on course.
(365) 398-0745 View (365) 398-0745
Photo of Tara Noble, MSW, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Tara Noble
Registered Social Worker, MSW, RSW
Verified Verified
Toronto, ON M5V  (Online Only)
Waitlist for new clients
Counselling is an opportunity to uncover your potential. My expertise includes supporting children, adolescent, adults and families experiencing trauma, relationship challenges, adoption preparation/breakdown, grief & loss, separation/divorce/reunification, anxiety, depression & exploring your own unique personal life challenges & goals.
Counselling is an opportunity to uncover your potential. My expertise includes supporting children, adolescent, adults and families experiencing trauma, relationship challenges, adoption preparation/breakdown, grief & loss, separation/divorce/reunification, anxiety, depression & exploring your own unique personal life challenges & goals.
(289) 366-1632 View (289) 366-1632
Photo of Heather Morton, RSW, MSW, HBA, Registered Social Worker
Heather Morton
Registered Social Worker, RSW, MSW, HBA
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Etobicoke, ON M8V
An adoptee, I understand and work with adoptees, first & adoptive families to navigate the effects of adoption-related experiences.
Need someone who "gets you" to talk with or listen as you go through a difficult time or life transition? I'm empathetic and pragmatic, focused on you and your needs. Together, we'll develop strategies that help navigate obstacles interfering with you enjoying the life you envision. We'll follow an holistic approach to draw on self knowledge to find answers that reside within you, honing your abilities to work through life's challenges. I'm a Registered Social Worker, (RSW) with a Masters of Social Work (MSW) specializing in Mental Health, and hold an Honours Bachelor of Arts (HBA) in English Literature & Aboriginal Studies.
An adoptee, I understand and work with adoptees, first & adoptive families to navigate the effects of adoption-related experiences.
Need someone who "gets you" to talk with or listen as you go through a difficult time or life transition? I'm empathetic and pragmatic, focused on you and your needs. Together, we'll develop strategies that help navigate obstacles interfering with you enjoying the life you envision. We'll follow an holistic approach to draw on self knowledge to find answers that reside within you, honing your abilities to work through life's challenges. I'm a Registered Social Worker, (RSW) with a Masters of Social Work (MSW) specializing in Mental Health, and hold an Honours Bachelor of Arts (HBA) in English Literature & Aboriginal Studies.
(289) 272-7194 View (289) 272-7194
Photo of Kimberley D Miller, RSW, Registered Social Worker
Kimberley D Miller
Registered Social Worker, RSW
Verified Verified
Mississauga, ON L5L  (Online Only)
I am also an Adoption Competent Therapist and work to normalize experiences, rather than pathologize them.
Are you living your best life? Feeling out of balance or isolated? Unresolved grief? Are usual patterns or coping mechanisms not as reliable? Now might be the time to get support, clarity or make changes in your life. Whether personal, family or work related, I provide an empathic and non-judgmental perspective to assist you in working through the issues at hand. Parenting a child with a history of trauma, loss or special need? Then you may experience some extra challenges. I can provide support and some useful insights and strategies. A trauma informed lens and validation of experience are important aspects of our work together.
I am also an Adoption Competent Therapist and work to normalize experiences, rather than pathologize them.
Are you living your best life? Feeling out of balance or isolated? Unresolved grief? Are usual patterns or coping mechanisms not as reliable? Now might be the time to get support, clarity or make changes in your life. Whether personal, family or work related, I provide an empathic and non-judgmental perspective to assist you in working through the issues at hand. Parenting a child with a history of trauma, loss or special need? Then you may experience some extra challenges. I can provide support and some useful insights and strategies. A trauma informed lens and validation of experience are important aspects of our work together.
(647) 694-4953 View (647) 694-4953
Photo of Maria A Wallis - Maria A Wallis Social Work Consulting, PhD, RSW, MSW, Registered Social Worker
Maria A Wallis Social Work Consulting
Registered Social Worker, PhD, RSW, MSW
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Mississauga, ON L5N
Are you experiencing anxiety, panic, depression or other mental health concerns? Or are you new in Canada and looking for support orientating to Canadian schools, workplaces and other institutions? If so, let’s talk. I also have personal and professional experience with the adoption process, racial trauma, and gender violence.
Are you experiencing anxiety, panic, depression or other mental health concerns? Or are you new in Canada and looking for support orientating to Canadian schools, workplaces and other institutions? If so, let’s talk. I also have personal and professional experience with the adoption process, racial trauma, and gender violence.
(289) 796-3991 View (289) 796-3991
Photo of Dr. Lauren Stenason, PhD, CPsych, Psychologist
Dr. Lauren Stenason
Psychologist, PhD, CPsych
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Burlington, ON L7M
Waitlist for new clients
I provide assessment and treatment to those seeking support for trauma, non-suicidal self-injury, anxiety, substance use, and in navigating experiences with adoption and child welfare involvement.
I’m a clinical psychologist and work with children, adolescents, and adults providing assessment, therapy, and parenting support. My area of expertise is in working with those impacted by adverse childhood experiences, trauma, grief and loss, emotion regulation, and attachment-related difficulties. My practice is informed by my research, which focuses on promoting the mental health of youth impacted by trauma and ways to equip caregivers with positive trauma-informed parenting strategies.
I provide assessment and treatment to those seeking support for trauma, non-suicidal self-injury, anxiety, substance use, and in navigating experiences with adoption and child welfare involvement.
I’m a clinical psychologist and work with children, adolescents, and adults providing assessment, therapy, and parenting support. My area of expertise is in working with those impacted by adverse childhood experiences, trauma, grief and loss, emotion regulation, and attachment-related difficulties. My practice is informed by my research, which focuses on promoting the mental health of youth impacted by trauma and ways to equip caregivers with positive trauma-informed parenting strategies.
(289) 274-5262 View (289) 274-5262

See more therapy options for Cobourg

Adoption Counsellors

Does my adopted child need therapy?

Not every adopted child needs therapy. However, many can benefit from seeing an adoption-informed therapist, especially if they were victims of abuse or neglect, appear withdrawn or disconnected, have behavioural or developmental issues (which may or may not be related to their adoption), are struggling with feelings of grief or loss surrounding their birth parents, or find it difficult to establish an identity, a challenge that often becomes most apparent during adolescence.

When should adoptive parents seek therapy?

Prospective parents can benefit from therapy even before an adoption—for example, to voice worries and fears; to reconcile infertility struggles, if relevant; or simply to prepare themselves for parenthood. After the adoption, parents who are struggling to bond with their child; are unsure how to talk about adoption or related issues, such as race; or whose child is dealing with developmental, behavioural, or psychiatric concerns can address these and other issues with the help of an adoption-competent therapist.

Is family therapy appropriate for adoptive families?

Family therapy can be invaluable for strengthening the bond between adoptive parents and children, helping the latter feel more secure in their place in the family. Family therapy can also help adoptive families navigate complex communication issues—for example, parents who feel uncomfortable discussing race with their child, who in turn feels invalidated by their silence, or a child who has questions about his birth parents but avoids asking them out of fear of hurting his adoptive parents’ feelings.

What therapy is not appropriate for adoption issues?

A discredited therapy known as “attachment therapy” (sometimes called “holding therapy” or “rebirthing therapy”) should not be used to treat adopted and foster children, though it was largely designed for this population. Attachment therapy involves restraining, coercing, and punishing the child in order for them to “release” negative emotions and attach to their new caregivers—techniques that are abusive and dangerous and have even proven fatal in some cases.